|
Post by macmckenzie on Apr 22, 2016 7:17:34 GMT -5
I just don't understand, it seems that every time we vote on changes you guys don't even take it into account. Once again, the option that the commissioners disapproved of of won, (even putting all the other options together right now would only leave us with a tie), and once again they have totally ignored the league's decision. I personally was having fun with my rebuild, and any success I have from now on is going to feel faked, not to mention the fact that this plan punishes success. I really want to stay with the league, as I've had tons of fun until now, and I'm not leaving as of now, but I'd be lying if I said this didn't bother me a lot and make me think. In the past when this has been done the changes have at least been pretty realistic, so I've gotten over it and they've largely been for the good of the league, but this has no basis in reality(and don't say it's like relegation, because it's not) and over time it will drain the league of enthusiastic GMs trying to win. Mike makes an excellent point. We had a vote the majority voted not to change anything but still we changed. Surely you can see how many of us see that as unfair and heavy-handed. I know I personally was looking forward to the challenge of battling the Cardinals in the NL Central for many seasons to come, while watching my backside as the Pirates with all of their great young talent like Clarke and Gonzalez quickly improve. That is now all the suddenly gone and that really reduces my interest. I think that before you restart the Sims we need to take a New Roll Call to see where this league now stands as far as membership. I personally am on the fence and will likely decide based on whether the more active forum participants are staying in the league. I have no desire to play with a group of silent GM's who rarely post and who quietly sim.
|
|
|
Post by Anthony_TwinsGM on Apr 22, 2016 7:21:02 GMT -5
I dont recall the poll being official in any capacity. I even said it was an informal poll. Personally I thought expansion was the way to go but what youre not seeing is the big picture. What is stopping us from trying this realignment for a few seasons? When it shows that its working, great and we keep going. If its not for whatever reason, we adjust? If its clearly not working whats stopping us from making changes or going back to the original divisions or try something else?
Realignment doesnt have to be permanent where ALL OTHER OPTIONS were permanent and no going back.
Realignment was the least invasive option, and I didnt believe in doing NOTHING. Our Financials are screwed up but I wasnt a believer in mass changing everything, plus the in game options altered fan interest, markets, ticket prices, and budgets.
Im done trying to make EVERYONE happy. It's my personality, and its who I am. Its also now impossible, stressful, and beyond frustrating. So going forward I will be doing what Thomas and I feel is BEST for the league. You can agree or not agree with it.
|
|
|
Post by Anthony_TwinsGM on Apr 22, 2016 7:24:44 GMT -5
Im so fed up with all of this. Im stepping away from the forums for a little while.
I wish people would look at it from the overall view of things not from "me me me"
|
|
|
Post by mikejk on Apr 22, 2016 7:25:09 GMT -5
I dont recall the poll being official in any capacity. I even said it was an informal poll. That is such a copout.
|
|
|
Post by Anthony_TwinsGM on Apr 22, 2016 7:29:31 GMT -5
I dont recall the poll being official in any capacity. I even said it was an informal poll. That is such a copout. How is that a cop out? I mentioned in the title it was semi-informal.
|
|
|
Post by mikejk on Apr 22, 2016 7:33:51 GMT -5
How is that a cop out? I mentioned in the title it was semi-informal. Because why even ask for public opinion if you won't even take it into account? I think that the majority of us assumed that after the informal poll that there would be an official voting poll.
|
|
|
Post by Anthony_TwinsGM on Apr 22, 2016 7:35:37 GMT -5
How is that a cop out? I mentioned in the title it was semi-informal. Because why even ask for public opinion if you won't even take it into account? I think that the majority of us assumed that after the informal poll that there would be an official voting poll. I wont make that mistake again. What makes you think we didnt take any of it into account??
|
|
|
Post by mikejk on Apr 22, 2016 7:41:42 GMT -5
Because why even ask for public opinion if you won't even take it into account? I think that the majority of us assumed that after the informal poll that there would be an official voting poll. I wont make that mistake again. What makes you think we didnt take any of it into account?? Because the majority of the league who voted to keep the league the same, yet changes were still made.
|
|
|
Post by Anthony_TwinsGM on Apr 22, 2016 7:52:11 GMT -5
A change that we feel is absolutely BEST for the league to create some MUCH NEEDED balance and parity. This was the least invasive option and the easiest one to correct on the off chance it didn't work as intended.
In my test, it worked exactly as intended.
|
|
|
Post by mikejk on Apr 22, 2016 8:30:16 GMT -5
A change that we feel is absolutely BEST for the league to create some MUCH NEEDED balance and parity. This was the least invasive option and the easiest one to correct on the off chance it didn't work as intended. In my test, it worked exactly as intended. I understand that you are doing what you think is best for the league, but at the same time I believe that we could have done less drastic things that maybe would have taken 2 or 3 seasons to make a real impact. One that I am strongly in favor of is using the list I made(it's in one of these threads), and removing all of those contracts. That would likely take a couple or more seasons to help restore parity, but I still think it should be our first response over what we are doing now.
|
|
|
Post by mikejk on Apr 22, 2016 9:47:11 GMT -5
Im so fed up with all of this. Im stepping away from the forums for a little while. I wish people would look at it from the overall view of things not from "me me me" This is not from a me me me standpoint, I'm being placed in the third division for Christ's sake! I just don't think it's the best way for the SBL to move through the problems we have as a league. One problem I believe this new realignment creates is that you will see that some weaker teams will make it to the playoffs in 2025 and then get thoroughly curb-stomped by the division 1 teams. So the 85-90(probably) win teams will still have little chance at a championship, while hampering their ability to build up the actual strength of their teams through good draft picks that they would have if they were a 70 win team in normal divisions. I think one of the main reasons we saw so much NBA style tanking or semi-tanking(which led to the talent disparity and the subsequent 100+ win and loss teams) in the OOTP 16 SBL is because I'm pretty sure 1st round picks in OOTP 16 had a much higher success rate than in the real life MLB. With the new development engine in OOTP 17 that I've heard lends itself to creating a higher percentage of busts, more people will stop tanking for picks and trading away all of there MLB level talent. I don't know why I didn't write this earlier, but this is one of the main reasons why I don't believe we should realign divisions.
|
|
|
Post by Anthony_TwinsGM on Apr 22, 2016 9:49:43 GMT -5
This was why were using a 2 year win total. So teams arent jumping from Divison 3 up to Division 1.
|
|
|
Post by mikejk on Apr 22, 2016 10:23:25 GMT -5
This was why were using a 2 year win total. So teams arent jumping from Divison 3 up to Division 1. I guess this is a good step, but I still feel that if we are going to do this it needs more stability, I would make it a four of five year cycle.
|
|
|
Post by Tigers_GM_Sam on Apr 22, 2016 11:14:27 GMT -5
man this is a rough one - I really want to support this league (and especially you Anthony) but this change is one I just can't get behind. Apologies for the long reply but I want to explain both why I think this is wrong and why I care so much!
I'll say again that I know these decisions are being made because you guys think it's for the good of the league - after all why would Thomas sign up for going into a division where he'll lose 90 games every year? I don't envy you in running the league as I'm sure it feels like you can't win sometimes - such are the joys of leadership. From my point of view though you're wrong and ultimately this change will screw the league up way more than it is already.
why do I think you're wrong?
Firstly, the whole 'ask the league what it thinks then ignore the responses thing' is really frustrating. Ultimately the best leagues are for the GMs and by the GMs and the fact that the solution you guys came up with wasn't even one of the ones we got to vote on/ discuss makes it feel like our opinions don't matter. Personally I think putting hard salary cap in place in 2027 and giving everyone two seasons to make tough choices about contracts would have solved the disparity issue very quickly - but no one is interested in my opinion.
Why should our opinions matter when we're not the ones running the league?
Well, playing successfully and competitively in a good online OOTP league requires a ton of time and dedication. It's not just the exporting thing, or contributing on the forums but the best GMs think on every small part of the game. I have fallen asleep wondering whether I should bat Buchanan ahead of Ramos or not, every deal I make takes a ton of thought, and I've especially spent ages working on making sure that the financial side of my franchise supports our constant 'win now' focus (I have spreadsheets!) I can't tell you the times my wife has laughed at me retyping another 'Tigers season preview' article when I have a lot more 'important' things to do.
Why is this a terrible change?
As with most comprise decisions the one you came up with is stupid. (I tried to think of a better word there - but I couldn't).
The consequence will be that some really shitty teams will make the post season and really good teams don't. A sports league is the ultimate 'meritocracy' - the best win, the worst lose, the middle tries to beat the best - everyone tries to improve.
There are some teams in the lowest division who would struggle to beat some of the better AAA teams. Whose fault is this disparity? It's the GMs fault. I appreciate that 'unicorn' players and bad contracts aren't a good thing - but ultimately we are all playing the same game and as I mentioned before plenty of good GMs have proven that they can be successful even when the cards they were initially dealt weren't the best.
So some shitty teams make the post season and get absolutely crushed by the best teams. GMs with bad teams will be rewarded.
Then there the 'middling' teams or teams who are trying to compete with the best (Yankees and Red who have already commented fall into that bucket - but there are plenty of others). Those teams are can now only aspire to be the best in an average division. Even if they make the post season (which I'm sure they will) they are effectively aiming to be a mid sized fish in a below average pond. Isn't the idea of competing in OOTP to try and beat the best?
On the flip side of the coin this change is clearly punishing the best teams. I'll use myself as an example here - but this is the same for all the good teams. I'm in a competitive division and I enjoy my rivalry with the Royals and White Sox every year. In recent years I've had the best of that rivalry. Now because I've created a winning franchise (based on a lot of work and being good at this game) I have to play all of the other best teams and my chances of reaching the post season are roughly equal to the Cleveland Indians? How is that a healthy competitive environment?
Am I only thinking of myself? Yes and no - I'm pissed that by building one of the best teams I'm now at a disadvantage, and I'm pissed that bad teams make the post season but I'm more frustrated because I really enjoy playing in this league and I think I'm seeing it being ruined with the best intentions. The long term health of the league is defined by the GMs you have playing and as far as I know nobody was quitting because of disparities between teams? They're quitting now - so by definition these changes are not healthy.
I get the whole 'we'll try this for a couple of seasons' thing - but we brought in scouting, ratings changes, no draft trading etc' with the same intention and haven't given them more than a season to see if they're working. Does that mean those changes failed? Does it mean that we're going to reverse those changes?
Trying to work out what all this means for me and this league and I did the 'pros' and 'cons' of sticking around. Ultimately I think sticking around will turn me into a sour GM always saying 'I told you so' when things go wrong and getting even more frustrated by these changes than I already am. I've seen those kind of GMs in other leagues and they're dicks! I don't want to be a dick.
I was one of the founding members of the league who left because I thought the last commish was making some horrible decisions. I came back because of Anthony and hope I added something to the league while I was here - but I think it's time for me to find a new league.
Thanks to all the GMs and Thomas/ Anthony for running the league - and I really hope I'm completely wrong about this stuff and the SBL goes from strength to strength.
|
|
|
Post by Anthony_TwinsGM on Apr 22, 2016 11:48:26 GMT -5
This was why were using a 2 year win total. So teams arent jumping from Divison 3 up to Division 1. I guess this is a good step, but I still feel that if we are going to do this it needs more stability, I would make it a four of five year cycle. I think 4 is a little too much personally. I ran the numbers with 3 years and essentially the White Sox & Jays swap... As well as the Reds & Padres.
|
|